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Use Rivet To Joint The Lattice Wall Together

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Old 05-14-2018, 05:06 AM   #1
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Question use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

Hi guys,
As you may find from my ID, I am a green hand carpenter, and Iíve planned to build myself a yurt.
While in the very first step, I got stucked. Iíve tried to jointed two piece of wood with rivet, just like pacific and other people do. But the rivets always too tight, or even sink into wood.
The rived I am using is core rivet, and I put washer at one end of the rivet. The rivet gun I am using is a hand pushing tool, not electronic or gas powered gun.
Any suggestions about how can I solve this problem will be highly appreciated.
Did I use the wrong type of rivet? Or the guns has to be gas powered? I am sure the wood I am using is hard. Please any suggestions?
Thanks in advance

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Old 05-14-2018, 10:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

Forget rivets. Use cordage like the Mongolians. Or, do as I did and use 1/4-20 carriage bolts. Don't use washers on the bolts. You need a loose fit with bolts to get the lath to open and close easily. Washers rattle when the wind blows. Cordage assures there will be no bind, and no rattling. Good luck.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

BTW if you opt for cordage, use braided core, not cheapjack home depot lowes or Walmart cheap cord. The stuff is worthless junk. Trust me on this.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

I used Chicago Bolts for my 16/12" yurt, and they've worked well in the field for several years. They're sized for 3x the width of the khana ribs, so there's an extra rib of slop. Note that my khana ribs are only 1/4" thick about 1.5" wide. I put nylon washers between the two ribs in the middle to facilitate smooth rotation. If they're tightened fairly well (which, because the middle is a fixed length, does *not* pinch the joint) they stay put, but they can be easily removed or replaced. I recommend putting the screwdriver hole *inside*. It's easy to brace the smooth back by reaching behind it, but much harder to get a screwdriver or drill back there.

This is an example.

https://www.ellero.com/product/stain...lts-pack-of-4/

I used aluminum ones for mine, but next I intend to use some form of semi-magnetic stainless steel. The extra weight isn't that much, even for hundreds of fasteners, SS is stronger, and having it be magnetic is super helpful for a number of reasons.

I don't really transport my yurt much anymore, but I built it to fit into my tiny Geo Metro (with no passenger seat) and even when it was 16", I was able to rol up the walls smoothly into a tube just large enough to put all the roof ribs into.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

All three of my yurts khana have been 5/16ths x 1.5" lath ripped from clear 2X lumber, and assembled with 1/4-20 carriage bolts. The first go around I had washer in the joint in addition to either side. Installing hundreds of bolts and a thousand washers is tedious at best. Disassembling the bolts to remove rattling washers is a MAJOR pita. Replacing split laths that split due to bolt threads is also a major pita. This is EXACTLY where cordage rules.

Yurts were invented prior to metal fasteners as we know them today. If I was to build another smaller sized camping yurt, I'd have no qualms whatsoever about using quality cordage and simply knotting the joints as has been done for many centuries. I typically build my yurt and everything else as bombproof as I can make it. In fact that isn't necessary at all on a lath wall. Rawhide ties are likely just fine, if not better than crap cordage.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

OK you newbs reading this. Read on for another comment about lath joints.

Time after time here I have mentioned the 'Clan yam kaminari yurt plan'. Using their 'Bolt the khana to the door frame' and 'Bolt the khana sections together.' is a definite no no. Do 'NOT' do that. Lash them.

I actually installed 1/4-20 carriage bolts through my door frame side jambs to attach the khana to, according to their plan. This was a BIG mistake as the laths are skinny and prone to splitting when they are being fitted over the carriage bolts. The jambs are NOT 'in plane' with the curve of the lath wall and that creates a real issue when installing the lath over the door frame bolts. VERY BAD DESIGN!! Splitting a lath at that joint when you are assembling or taking down the yurt is incredibly easy, and is absolutely no fun at all due to all the work necessary to get the lath replaced. I've done that a couple times and it is a >HUGE PITA!<. !!!FORGET BOLTS!!!

Mongolians simply lash the khana to the door jamb. Result= no splitting. The joint can give somewhat under installation stress. Ease of set up/tear down with lashing is immeasurable in real world conditions.

In addition, LASH >not bolt< the khana sections together. Bolting them ala the clan yama kaminari where there is probably two dozen bolts that need to be thread through each section -in the field- is incredibly bad design. A >MAJOR< design mistake. Lash the sections together as Mongolians do. Mongolians have this stuff all figured out, believe me.
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Old 05-15-2018, 01:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

Another point regarding the wall. When I built my yurts I pre made my wall cable to exact size, to the inch of yurt circumference. This is extremely handy for sizing the yurt wall to correct circumference so that the rafters fit tight in the ring and don't deflect under load. While it is handy as can be from that erection perspective, and strong beyond belief, no Mongolian yurt I have seen in video has a wall cable. They use a tension rope, or simply a cloth band at the top of the wall to take the load. Well guess what that is simple and works just fine for them as well. While I'd always so go ahead and make a cale, in fact it absolutely isn't necessary, and never has been. Typical Americanized 'overthinking' the problem.
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Old 05-16-2018, 01:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Rowlands View Post
Another point regarding the wall. When I built my yurts I pre made my wall cable to exact size, to the inch of yurt circumference. This is extremely handy for sizing the yurt wall to correct circumference so that the rafters fit tight in the ring and don't deflect under load. While it is handy as can be from that erection perspective, and strong beyond belief, no Mongolian yurt I have seen in video has a wall cable. They use a tension rope, or simply a cloth band at the top of the wall to take the load. Well guess what that is simple and works just fine for them as well. While I'd always so go ahead and make a cale, in fact it absolutely isn't necessary, and never has been. Typical Americanized 'overthinking' the problem.
Bob,

Thanks for all the info. I really appreciate field reports from people who've tried a lot of things. Are you talking about the tension ring at the top, or another belly band in the middle of the wall?

I use 800 lb test kevlar shark fishing line for my tension ring in my 12', and it's worked well for years. It has basically no stretch, but is way more flexible than a steel cable.

I've been planning to make a small (maybe 9' ?) camping yurt for hot climates, and I will try using the knotted cords for my wall khana to see how it goes. We just got notice at my favorite local Burning Man affiliated event that there's been a huge influx of RVs and they can't guarantee we'll be able to park in our camp with them. I used to have a foam hexayurt (how I actually got into yurts!) for many years for hot weather camping and while it was a pain to transport, it was super fabulous for keeping the interior temperature comfortable on hot days and cool nights. This time around I'm going to make a pop-up Bjurt-style setup that collapses like an umbrella with Reflectrix bubble wrap

insulation

for the covering. It should be almost as good thermally and break down much smaller.
Bob Rowlands likes this.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

tbm, my cable rests in the lath crosses at the top of the wall. The rope or cloth wrap is up at the top of the wall in the Mongolian trad yurt videos I have seen on youtube. fwiw they are just a few videos and there gotta be countless yurts in Mongolia. They don't need a cable they just know what's what. It's their home.

When I built my first 14' yurt, I had trouble installing the rafters and ring on the wall to where there was a good tight fit. After repeated attempts mantling then dismantling I was scratching my head over how to eliminate the problems I was having.

It dawned on me that having the correct circumference at the top of the wall where the rafters sat, was key to eliminating the problems. I'd never erected a yurt before and it wasn't exactly easy the first go round. I built my cable to circumference and used that as a guideline to getting the wall expanded to the correct size. THEN install the rafters and as the last few afters poked into the ring I realized I had a perfect tight fit that was rock solid. Solid enough I climbed up through the smokehole and climbed onto the ring and was jumping up and down with no deflection. Now that is one solid tent roof lemme tell yuh because I weigh 210. VOILA! Perfection!

Is that cable necessary? Not at all. But it certainly does work great for me.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: use rivet to joint the lattice wall together

As for burning man, I have seen that on youtube. While I personally have zero interest in any rv, it's outr society today. Few people have the slihghtest interest in going camping where they actually have to set up a tent, set up camp, and do some work. Most folks particularly older folks abhor any kind of labor when they are planning on 'taking it easy'. Seeing tents in a campground is very rare nowadays.

As for small yurt I can see that for camping. Install the stove on the side and a guy has it made. Small is also less material, less to build and transport, and a faster set up take down. Good choice.
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