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Old 01-12-2013, 12:03 PM   #11
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We used: http://www.yurts.com/images/media/24...form_Plans.pdf and went with the 1-1/8" T&G Plywood on 16" pier blocks.

Going to use Roxul R23 (5.5") stonewool

insulation

underneath the floor.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #12
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Do you just stick those straight on top of the ground, wjdzl, or do you bury them at all?
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:17 PM   #13
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I heard back from CO Yurt about SIP pricing.

20':
Panels only: $3834
Panels only with mahogany: $4032
Panel with support system: $4479
Panel with support system with mahogany flooring plywood: $4677

24':
Panels only: $4841
Panels only with mahogany: $5105
Panel with support system: $5319
Panel with support system with mahogany flooring plywood: $5583

My calculations for lumber, beams, and footings was about $2500 for 20' and $3000 for 24'. That includes no finished flooring,

insulation

, or tyvek, etc. . but does include a small deck. I used CO Yurt basic plans for my estimating, with a double plywood floor, and 2x4 joist, for insulating space.
I'm not a pro at estimating, though, so use those loosely...

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Old 01-13-2013, 09:37 AM   #14
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Default Good enought to hold phone poles

Hi All,

I am traveling today, so I am on a netbook, not on my main computer, so I don't have access to my bookmarks, Maybe someone else can find it, or I will be home in a few days.

Cruising around I found a website for a company out of Oklahoma that makes a chemical foam designed to set utility poles and fences. I don't know anything about the cost, and I remember you had to order it from the internet, but it was really interesting.

They did some video of product testing, and it consistently behaved as well or better for holding fence posts in the ground. That suggests to me it might do a good job holding support posts out of the ground.

When I had some more time I was planning to investigate it a little further, but maybe the group will have more time and access to check it out.

I am just outside Shanghai today, and I don't have much of a place for testing even if I was back at my home in Zhuhai.

If no one else posts it here before I get back, I will post the company website then... before the end of this week.

Rod
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:02 AM   #15
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Default Pole setting foam

Was this the site? POLE SETTING FOAM : Rainbow Tech
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yurting View Post
Do you just stick those straight on top of the ground, wjdzl, or do you bury them at all?
In our infinite wisdom we chose to build on a pretty decent slope, which we compensated for by varying the length of our 4x4 support posts. That said we typically dug down anywhere from 4-16" depending on the soil, and then put down a few inches of gravel before putting the pier blocks in. We haven't backfilled around them as yet, but it seems very stable despite the high side of the yurt being 5-6' off the ground. All comes down to bracing so far as I can tell.

Edit: Some pictures along the way (never fear we added bracing as we progressed)








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Old 01-13-2013, 03:01 PM   #17
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That looks great. Mine is also on a bit of a slope, though not as much:

Yurt Forum - A Yurt Community - Jafo's Album: Yurt Construction

That foam looks great. I wonder how environmentally friendly it is?
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:02 AM   #18
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Yes Sapo,

That may not be the same company, but it is the same idea.

Do you have any experience with it? Any ideas about cost?

Having hand mixed a sidewalk around my house, I know how heavy cement gets after a bit.

The company I was reading had a few videos of some testing, pulling posts and poles out of the ground for example. I figure if it takes a thousond pounds to get the post out, it must be able to hold up that much as well. Maybe that is just farmer's logic and not factual, but it makes sense to me.

Rod
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:36 PM   #19
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Yurting.........are you thinking of building on fairly level ground?.............given the cost of a platform, have you considered a slab w radiant heat?

Anyone out their with experiential knowledge to offer?

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Old 01-16-2013, 01:39 AM   #20
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Hi DJSPN,

No direct knowledge, but I have been at a concrete pouring party where they were installing the piping for radiant heat, but I have not been back to experience it in use.

At the pour they had leveled the forms all around, and then they used small "pea" gravel that was mechanically packed to level the space and to adjust the depth of the concrete. They used a gas powered packer on the whole area.

The concrete was to be thicker for the first foot or 18" (maybe 6" above the foam) around the perimeter, and thinner in the center part (I am guessing, but I would say maybe 3".

They put a layer of black plastic on the gravel, and then used blue foam to insulate under the concrete, I don't remember now, maybe the foam was 2" thick? I am sure the thermal break from the ground is very important. I think the blue foam was sort of like tongue and groove on the edges. They also had used the same blue foam cut in strips and stood it around the outside edge of the slab to totally insulate it from outside influence/exposure.

They had put stakes (1x2?) in the gravel that stuck through the insulation maybe 1" or 2", Some welded wire fencing was sitting/stapled on top of the stakes. The wire was to reinforce the concrete, so it needed to be suspended in the concrete, not just laying under it. They stapled the pipes to the top of those stakes with plastic bands they had cut from milk jugs. The wire also helped to support it.

The pipes made big "S" patterns across the whole space, and the pipe was not rigid pipe, so it did not really lay stiff, it was more like garden hose, but clear, and you could see some reinforcing cord was woven into the pipe. They told me the name of the type of plastic pipe at the time, but I can't remember it now, PECs maybe? I don't think it is important of not as long as it does not react with the concrete. I think the pipe would have been about 1" or 1.5" under the surface of the finished concrete.

They had cut some holes in the wires so the guys could walk around on the insulation, and I can remember asking after seeing a few places that their footprints were showing on the insulation, but they said that would be ok.

I remember talking at the time about needing the stakes to be set at a certain grade so it could be drained if that was necessary, but I don't remember if they had actually done it, or just saw the need for it. It would not be hard if you just added a frost free faucet at the lowest point. It could stick back into the concrete with no problems. I think this part would be easier with rigid pipe, it would not sag so much.

We were also talking at the same time about using an air compressor to blow out the

moisture

like the sprinkler guys do in cold areas to keep water from breaking all your pipes. I just can't remember what option they chose.

This has been been 6 or 8 years ago, and it was preparation for a straw bale house that a friend of my friend built back in Montana, and then he left the area a couple years later. I never saw the inside of the house, and only saw the outside before it was stuccoed, bales, wire and plastic.

I think it would be helpful to use as large diameter of piping as is practical and affordable, maybe 3/4" - 1". This should help keep your pressures down, but it would make the volume of water you would need to push more, so the pump might have to push higher volume at lower pressure.

I think I would try using a cheap fountain pump as a first try, I don't think a passive system would work as I think about the amount of pipe he had laying out on the wire screens, but I am not sure. I have not really thought about that, or looked at using any engineering to figure this out.

My parents built a (traditional) house in the mountains of western North Carolina, and installed the electric version of radiant floor

heating

under the carpeting. It was comfortable and they were pleased with it, but that was back in the day when electricity was much cheaper. Western North Carolina isn't as cold as say, Western Montana, but it does get cold and snow, and the snow stays for a few days when it falls. East coast snow is all different from Montana snow. It has a high

moisture

content and settles a lot quicker I think.

At any case, it worked well enough for them with electricity, why shouldn't water work as well or better?

In addition, radiant heat from the floor helps with one of the big problems with yurts in cold areas. If you design your yurt to have privacy walls of any kind, those areas are blocked from radiant heat from a central source. You have to come up with some assisted air movement or secondary heat source to have heat to those areas to avoid cold spots. You can also have condensation problems where there isn't enough air movement.

I lived in Montana for 18 years with wood as my sole source of heat, and you do learn the tricks, but that was on the grid, where it was much easier to devise some method, something as simple as cheap box fan sitting on the floor blowing air out of the cold area made the warm air move much more effectively into the room since air temperature tends to laminate if it is stagnant, warm ears and freezing feet.

I can also relate just the opposite. I worked for a while (5 months) on the North Slope of Alaska (Prudhoe Bay) back in the day. Up there the situation is just the opposite. They lay out the piping for a freezer plant on the perma-frost, then they spray it with insulation, and then they pour concrete on top and build a building. Otherwise the heat of the building melts the perma-frost which turns to mud which slowly oozes out from under the slab and the building gradually sinks into the ground.

The refrigeration under the slab keeps the perma-frost frozen solid and avoids the problem, but energy is next to free there, natural gas is very explosive, so they sometimes just have to burn it to get rid of the hazard. They they used a jet engine burning natural gas to push a generator, and got rid of a problem and made good use of it at the same time.

Just my thoughts, not direct experience with using it. I am trying to be thorough and give as much information as I can remember, but there may be other questions if anyone thinks of them. Sorry that I tend to wander...

Rod
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