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Yurt Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

We used rmax? Some of it stayed on it's own if we cut it well. We used some scrap boards across multiple rafters to hold the middles up as we worked.

Each section needed two pieces, the bottom (at the wall) stays on it's own and the very top (at the dome) was a tight enough fit to stay also. It was where the two pieces met in the middle that needed some support - not all of them though, some stay on their own.

We haven't decided on a ceiling yet, but whatever we use will hold them up more permanently then the scrap wood.

Any brilliant ceiling ideas? (cheap, DIY, and attractive)
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

I am going to jump in the discussion here, but I am a little hesitant. Think of this as market research, not as marketing to the group which I am trying to avoid doing. This really seems like the right place in the discussion to bring it up.

The condensation issue has been one of my interests here. I have had trouble with condensation, mildew and mould in the past in conventional (but poorly) insulated housing, and I think it is a good topic for all yurt-folk, yurt-oholics and yurticians to think about. My wife and I both have issues, maybe allergies (but maybe not), involving mildew and mould, though my wife's are more severe. Fans, heaters, dehumidifiers, I have used then all.

In the past I have dealt with the problem by making a space behind all the furniture and such, to keep it at least 2" from the wall, and then using/making air flow along the wall so that condensation can't build up easily. Forced air heating is a bit wasteful in energy, but it is helpful in keeping down the amount of condensation.

I am really curious to hear from some of the yurticians who live with radiant floor heating. Does this seem to help with the condensation issue? The only yurts I have been around in very cold weather used wood or coal heat, and they are both famous/infamous for drying out the air inside your space. A notably good thing in a yurt, but I am really interested in the radiant floor heating idea. If the heat source was propane, and it was inside, I can see where that might add to the problem if it wasn't vented.

Now for the market research I was mentioning. Last weekend I attended the Canton Trade Fair.

One of the companies I talked to makes a 12 volt multi-speed (3? 5? I don't remember now), ceiling fan with a remote control. I was intrigued by the idea and have really been thinking about sending some to the states as a test case.

Using an 80 watt solar panel and a 12 volt 50AH battery, they say it will fully recharge in a "day", (but a solar day varies greatly depending on where you are and time of year), and it says it can run for 10+ hours on a charge, somewhat dependant on what speed you chose to run it.

There is no light in this fan like you sometimes see in ceiling fans but I am not sure why not. 12V LEDs are common and could use very little additional power depending on their choice.

It can come with a 120V to 12V transformer so if you have grid, or need to use your generator to top off your batteries after a string of dull days, but I can't see any advantage to a 12V DC product if you have grid power.

I am ordering a sample fan this afternoon to have a look for myself at the quality of the product, and I will set it up in my solar laboratory.... the clothes drying porch. Apartment living makes me a little crazy, and I think me in an apartment makes my wife a little crazy.

Pricing should work out to be in the neighborhood of $85 - $99. and it does not come with the solar panel or battery. I'm not too excited, because it might turn out to be a piece of poop, but I won't know until I look.

Summer or winter, I think it could be a good thing. I have been looking for something like this so I can use it in my own (off grid) yurt.

They also make 12V desk and standing rechargeable fans, but at this point they are't too interesting to me.

On a (even further to the) side note, the Canton Fair is a lot of fun, It helps me keep my sanity here. I get there one day every 6 months, and it is a huge show. It covers 15 acres, several floors deep, the products change every week, and it lasts for 3 weeks, 2 times a year. They have lots of stuff to look at and I get to see only one tiny little part in a day.

I have several new 12V LED things to play with that I brought back from the show. I just need more time to play. Someday...


Rod
rod::email::yurtlocker.com
Home Page.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

Re: covering insulation. We're also looking at parachutes. There's a small handful of large enough non-rainbow colored ones I have seen. Not super cheap but not too pricey compared to fabric from a store. I have seen $200-300. I like the idea of painters fabric. On top of the fabric we plan to put a thin strip of wood on each rafter to hold the parachute up and keep the feel of having the visual rafters look.

We have been living in our for a year+ so also have already installed the winter package. Interesting thought to move the rafters and studs so they are all equal distance apart AND then do the foam. We have installed a lot of shelving within studs though, so we still will have some funky sizes.

I'm worried about little foam specs falling all over our house...

We're also going to install a fan up the dome. More to keep heat down, but I suppose it might help with condensation.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

We have fixed our condensation problem in the back bedrooms along the bottom of the wall where it meet the drip edge. i lifted up the side cover and cut strips of bat style insulation about 3" x 1" thick to seal the gap and it has solved the problem. I think I will also seal the valance the same way.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

Hi I am having the same problem. It is driving me crazy. I insulated the ceiling with traditional insulation and covored it with thin plywood door skin. It looks and works great but has started dripping all over. I open the dome all the time but it still drips around the edges and cracks seams. What a mess we are in and just the start of winter. contact me if you want [email protected]
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

Is there a space between the insulation and the roof? I would think you would need this space so the air inside could travel up to the opened dome.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

We spent the weekend filling all the edges of the rafters with expanding foam and are hoping it will work to keep any warm air from getting up above the insulation. (We just have a few more spots to do once we get more foam from town tomorrow.)

I'll keep you posted and let you know if it works or not. I think it may take at least a few days to see a significant reduction in the dripping.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

I did not leave a space between the skin and the insulation. I just thought by filling the space it would be air tight and not let moisture in. When its cold there is actually a thin sheet of ice on the inside of the skin. Its a yurtigloo. Yay. I am worried about mold but it to cold to take it out?
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

Heat will always get through no matter what you do, and when it touches the cold skin, it will create condensation. That is why you always leave space in the attic of a house. Well, maybe somebody else has dealt with this before and has a better idea, but I would think there would have to be a gab between the insulation and the roof and then a way for the air in between to circulate outside.

Also, I should note that I have no condensation issues, but I am just using the reflectix insulation.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

It's starting to get cold here (well, it is Sweden after all) and we too are working on winterising our yurts. After the last gale off of the North Sea we realised that we had to do something to improve the insulation. You could actually feel the wind 'stealing' the heat from the yurt.

I think we could have left the yurts the way they were but the amount of wood we would need to keep them warm seemed like a bit of a waste. So we've started to experiment with relatively low cost solutions.

We've had a lot of success with EarthWool. We've simply tucked sheets of EarthWool between the rafters supports and hung a cotton liner in front of it. Total cost for insulating the walls of the 24' yurt was about €140.

We have no condensation problems and the air quality inside the yurts is excellent. We haven't insulated the roof (yet).

We did initially test with putting some builder's plastic between the EarthWool and the inside cotton liner, but discovered that condensation soon formed between the EarthWool and the Reflectix. Once we removed the plastic everything was fine.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

Stephan,

That is a good point. Perhaps those here who are trying the roof insulation, did not cover it with non-breathable materials like foam board, plastics, etc, it would help with condensation? I like the idea of a cotton liner, that might work perfect in conjunction with the dome being cracked open slightly. It allows the water vapor to escape.
 
Re: Dome Insulation Install and Condensation

Well, the attempt to seal the cracks did not work - it's still dripping inside and we stopped all moisture - creating activities that we could. At this point I would not recommend anything other than fully breathable insulation (natural fibers) inside a yurt.

And the rigid foam is nasty about filling the air with plastic particles when cut. It isn't too bad once secured in place though, but I would not do it again. I wish it hadn't been recommended to us, but we are toasty warm...

I will keep you all posted about our future attempts to remedy the problem. We are talking with Pacific Yurts to see if they have any ideas or can find someone who did this successfully. If anyone else does use rigid foam adn it doesn't drip, maybe with a moisture barrier on the inside? Please post details!
 
I also have this issue. I live in Ely, MN where winters are quite frigid. My yurt (Pacific Yurts) is completely insulated (5.5" foam under floor, 2 layers of Bonded Logic denim insulation in walls, and 5.5" foam between 2x6 rafters). The inside humidity level stays between 32-45% yet I still get abundant ice build-up and dripping on the dome. The water runs down on top of the foam. I'm also worried this will cause mold and rot. I have considered installing window plastic under the dome to reduce heat transfer and condensation. Has anyone else tried this? I wish one of the yurt companies offered an insulated glass dome.
 
I wish I knew the answer.. I think at some point though, a winter dome will need to be developed that allows the yurt to vent. Just my opinion though.
 
We placed a vapor barrier to cover the ceiling this fall and it appears to have reduced our ice build up. We still have dripping in a few places though - most noticably above our door. This spring we will remove the exterior side wall and check for moisture and mold in case the vapor barrier is just channeling the water down into the walls now instead of allowing it to drip all over our house.

I have felt the top of the wall insulation in a few places though and it seems fairly dry. We will post our results this spring in the hopes of helping others with this problem.

Also, we attempted some ventilation, but a yurt just isn't designed for it. We tried to vent above the door with some pipes put above the door fame into the roof and leaving the dome open, but with no visible improvement. Our current experiment is to seal as much of the roof off from interior moisture as possible. We will let you know our thoughts after this winter.
 
And Matt - we found that having the dome open whenever we are cooking or bathing also helps so my initial thoughts are not to seal it off. Anything is worth a try though - please report back if you find any good solutions!
 
I am wondering if a dome could not be modified with PVC to allow ventilation, and then the dome could be replaced during summer months?
 
I'm very impressed with the lack of condensation in our yurt. Yes, we get some......2 adults showering, cooking, laundry drying, tracked in snow melting, etc but not bad at all.....the dome is open just enough to slide my hand in and has been all winter. We heat with wood & infloor heating. There are times the windows fog up but then it dissipates ..... What I think truly helps is I didn't mess with the way my yurt is designed to work. Despite the fact it's carved up into rooms no interior wall is attached to the exterior.....4 inch gap, same as around the floor of the loft. Air naturally moves by convection and moisture vents out the dome, it might take a bit of heat but who cares? The infloor heating is set to keep yurt at 50F when stove goes out and that constant slow heat dries out tracked in snow and laundry hung in bathroom to dry is dry in 24 hrs. I'm sure that leaving my yurt alone by not sealing things up or covering with plastic etc really helps. It's not sealed up real tight and all 6 windows are just zip out clear vinyl. It just all works great! No moisture build up anywhere & no mold or musty smells.
 
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