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Stove pipe exit--cooking

H

hierony

New member
It looks like this is the forum section for heating in yurts. In this particular case, I'm looking at heating my food :p

I was thinking about the best way to cook my food. Electricity is easy & common, but only really economical if you have grid-tie with multiple circuits. I'm working off just one 15 amp circuit (100 ft extension cord, 12 gauge) so cooking can be tricky. My induction cooktop and slow cookers do well, but I want to switch to solar power eventually. The induction burner would require fairly high power, requiring more batteries & bigger inverter, etc. Plus it's only a single burner. The slow cookers will do fine on solar though (50-150 watts, 500 w*hr daily or such).

So I looked into wood cookstoves. Usually pretty big and cumbersome and expensive or really tiny (think camp/backpacking stove) without a chimney. Eventually I came across the Ecozoom Plancha--a "two-burner" rocket stove with a chimney, albeit $400. See here. At one point I ran across the figure '7.5 liters (~2 gal) water boiled 26 minutes'--pretty respectable power.

Anyhow, the thing uses 2.75" 'chimney' pipe that's up to 8 ft tall. From my reading, this is actually exhaust pipe (from motor vehicles) adapted, so I can't exactly use regular stove pipes/equipment directly. I'll be putting the stove in the middle of the yurt and running the chimney stack through the crown ring.

So the tricky part: I don't know the chimney pipe temp where it'll be going through the crown ring (it should arrive Monday and I'll start testing shortly thereafter). I'll keep the canvas away and use metal flashing to cover one of the crown ring sections. But I also want a good/decent weather seal and the lowest reasonable risk of burning things possible. So I was thinking of getting a silicone flashing boot and a 3" sealed double wall pipe section (12" or so). So it'd go: hot 2.75" chimney pipe inside 3" double wall pipe (1/8" gap ring sealed using some high-temp something or other) going through the silicone flashing boot screwed into the metal flashing in the crown ring.

Other than that, my main worry will be making sure the thing has the appropriate spark arrester and is high enough above the crown ring (3 ft).

Thoughts?
 
I am really glad I found an old propane gas range lol. Seriously though, keep us posted on how this works out.

In the winter, we cook on the wood stove from time to time, but mostly slow cooking meals like stews, sauces and pot roasts. I don't even want to think of having to do that in the summer. It would just be too hot.
 
Cooking over a fire in the summer was the norm until quite recently. I did it camping when I was young. No interest now though, I don't like hunkering down if I can avoid it.

As far as wood stove goes, make sure you pipe is tall enough that very few sparks land on the tent while still burning. Just check the system in action and you'll know what is what with it.

I built an arrestor for my pipe from 1/4" welded wire mesh, and doubled it over to make an even tighter mesh. Between that and the stack being 3' above the yurt ring I have maybe six burn holes in my cover after three years of (intermittent) use.

Skinny 2.75" stove pipe will create a very vigorous draw that should burn pretty clean, >based on video I have seen< This is something I do not know from experience so take it as is.

IMO you should have a 3/4" to one inch air gap between the inner pipe and outer pipe. That is the norm for a double wall 'rated' wood stove pipe. Also that is how I built my stove pipe since I wasn't about to spend 300 bucks on a rated double wall pipe.

Be aware that if the bottom of the double wall pipe is exposed to the inside air it will draft to the outside. That of course is a two edged sword.

Good luck.
 
I'm hoping this cook stove doesn't heat up nearly as much as the standard big wood cook stove. It is designed to cook and not heat space--the rocket design with a good thick ceramic lining should help. It's coming into summer here so I'll find out. Worst case I'll just make an outside cook station. I'll certainly keep you guys posted.

Bob: Three holes in three years is pretty good. But I'll probably be putting on some lumber wraps here shortly (black side out during winter for absorbing heat, white side out during summer for reflecting heat) to protect my canvas a bit. I should probably do an ember burn test to make sure any sparks wouldn't ignite the material & roof... Glad to know the homemade arrester works pretty well.

The unsealed double-walled pipe with inherent drafts is what I'm trying to avoid. I stopped by the hardware store today--they had 3" & 4" pellet stove pipe (double-walled and sealed, the gap filled with stove gasket and the walls crimped together on one end) in both 1 ft & 2 ft lengths for ~$25. I'll have to check the OD on the stove pipe, see what kind of gap I'd have. There was also some bulk 5/16" stove gasket that I could use to bridge the gap between the stove pipe & pellet pipe--I've used high temp stove sealant before, but it was brittle and I'd expect it to break/crack relatively quickly. I wouldn't be surprised if the .75-1" gap was for larger pipe diameters (5-10" ID)--there's probably some convection in there though.

I guess I'll just have to run the stove a couple times outside to see what the chimney temps are like. I read somewhere that flue gas temp (inside the pipe, a foot or two away from the stove) should be around 900 F/480 C for a clean burn. Cotton will start burning around 250 F/120 C if it's oily, more like 390 F/200 C with a flame source, and auto-ignite at 750 F/400 C (don't quote me, I'm using suspect internet sources). So I'll check to see what the temps are on just the bare stove pipe and then with the double-wall pellet stove pipe (making it effectively triple wall!). That'll tell me if the thing will be cool enough to go near my canvas yurt home.
 
A bit off topic, but I was extremely concerned about my wood stove installation regarding pipe temp and combustibles, the ring and the canvas cover. I mean really edgy to where I was nervously sticking my hand up at the pipe exit through the ring to check the air temps, canvas and ring temps, at various burn times and lengths of time. I even scrtached the paint with my nail to see how soft it was getting. lol I absolutely didn't trust my own install. It took quite a few hot burns before I finally relaxed with the stove cranking out the heat.

Yes my stove pipe is six inches and the outside pipe is eight inches. BTW I originally insulated between the two with fiberglass. Big mistake. Anyone reading this, do 'NOT' do that. Just trust me. Don't do it.

Also, it is always windy here. That helps disburse the few embers that escape the arrestor. While I was going through the initial edgy period I just stood outside and watched the pipe and embers to see what was going on up there. Not only was I concerned about my yurt, but I didn't want to set the field on fire and have the fire department come out and test the waterproofness of my yurt cover. lol
 
I didn't read your whole post carefully. Good, just too technical and my wood stove is already in. Have you ruled out propane?

Like Jafo, I do use my wood-stove for some cooking, but only if already fired up for heating purposes. Otherwise I cook 100% with a 2 burner Colman propane camp stove. Removing the top cover makes it look sleek - less camping like. Great size for a yurt. Whole thing has worked great!

(Also bought their tiny "oven" which works so so in a pinch.).

Brand new the whole system would be under $200. Waaaay cheaper if you bought second hand or scrounged.

A twenty gallon tank hosed to the outside lasts multiple months - even heating water for dishes, personal hygiene, and up to three hot water bottles to warm up the bed at night (and my friends think I am roughing it! They have no idea just how comfy I stay. Lol). Winter or summer, I've never had a problem - even with extreme New England temps. Last tank fill-up was under $7.

A nice set of cast iron makes clean up a breeze.

I'm fairly smell sensitive and not crazy about the stink of propane heaters, but haven't noticed the stove being an issue. Only when the gas is about to run out - which actually gives you a heads up.
 
In general I like the idea of wood better than propane. I've a propane heater that I use some for now, and I don't like the atmosphere it makes (full blast heats the place up nice though for the chill, rainy days). It costs $15-19 here to fill up a small tank (~$3.50/gal). The area has trees around, and one of the ideas with this stove is that it can burn just the branches. And there are quite a few brush piles. So in other words, free renewable fuel for the taking! And I'd be reducing burnables in the case of a wild fire.

My main point in posting this was to get stove pipe exit methodology. Most other stuff I've seen is for the modern yurts/wall exits, whereas I'm doing a center ring exit. I should have the materials for it all shortly though, for testing. The second point was just to make people aware of a potential option.

I've some pictures and I've used the stove twice so far. Learning it's quirks--I haven't burned wood in stoves much before. I'll try to post some things soon.
 
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I think for heating, you're dead on by using the wood. You will also be able to cook with it, but I think you're going to find it hot to do in the summers and also limiting because there are some things that are a pain to cook. Pasta or deep frying or roasting for example. So you may want to consider at best, an outdoor cooker.

For my yurt, we use propane for the cooking. I generally go through about 40 pounds of it a year, but if I lived there full time? It would be more like 120 I would imagine. That's taking into consideration cooking some of the time on the wood stove.
 
hierony that is a good point about clearing brush to reduce chance of a fire spreading to the canopy. We had horrendous fires here in Colorado Springs in 2012 and 2013, stoked by exactly what you described.

Now it is mandatory that anyone building a home in those areas have no trees and deadfall within-get this- 30' of the house.

Gov't in action. Of course that eliminates the possibility of a catastrophic fire from getting started. It really does work with 'ground fire' as I have gone back to places I trimmed prior to the fire, to do additional work, and the 'mitigated' properties escaped the inferno.

A canopy fire raging through the forest takes out whatever is ahead of it, mitigated or not, so I think the law is two edged and really just another typical govt bandaid solution. If you abide the law, you have a property that is not natural looking. Branches trimmed up to 16' on live trees and no downed wood leaves a tree farm look. And also reduces places critter habitat. But I gotta admit I would take that in preference to the carnage of a forest fire, so this is JMO. Massive forest fire is literally hell on earth.
 
Last year the region was covered in smoke for about a week or two from forest fires. I think I should do my part to keep those down :p

You wouldn't believe the number of brush piles that are around here. There's at least three piles on the 5 acres where I'm at right now, plus lots of trees needing a little trimming. There's at least one giant pile between here and work, and I'm sure there's many more stashed away that I suspect would be free for the hauling. My (very rough) estimates for wood fuel for cooking were about 1/2 cord each year.

Hmm. Jafo's estimates for annual usage probably aren't that far off for cooking only. The small propane tanks hold ~20 lbs/4-5 gallons; standard residential tanks are usually 500 gallons. Looking up annual usage, the US avg is ~450 gal; a two-person household uses 499 gal; a home <500 sq ft uses 176 gal. At $3.50/gal, that's $600-1800 each year. Mind you these numbers probably include cooking, space heating, and water heating, plus refrigeration & AC in some places. For just cooking, the numbers I found were 50 gal/year or $80-120/year.

But I'm hoping to top out at 3 cords total yearly wood usage at most (~$600 around here) for cooking & space heating; if insulation is good enough and I've the right type of stove, maybe just 1 cord for space heating (pretty optimistic, I know).
 
If I remember, I will take some pics this weekend of my setup. I have two, 40 pound tanks under the yurt. You can find an old timey gas range (pilot light, no electric starter) on Craigslist for $75 or better. That's what I did. I actually got mine for free. My brother had an old one he gave me but it had a plugin starter (oven) which wouldn't work because of the power draw so I bought one on Craigslist like I described above, and then sold the one my brother gave me for the same amount.
 
Do you have an overhead vent or fan for your propane stove? I've used both big and small camping/outdoor propane in the past, and I recall the big ones putting out some odors. I suppose in your 30 ft yurt, there's a lot more volume than my 20 ft yurt to dilute the fumes...
 
A heat exchanger style propane furnace should be pretty dang neutral in odor, or something is amiss. You should be getting nothing but blessed heat from them.

Propane salamanders used in construction, absolutely suck. I'd almost rather freeze at work. I don't like cold weather anymore. The fumes from those mothers are disgusting. I have breathed them too many years that I'd 'NEVER' ever use one in a yurt, wall tent, or prime residence. Subjecting my loved ones to those fumes is totally out of the question.
 
hierony said:
Do you have an overhead vent or fan for your propane stove? I've used both big and small camping/outdoor propane in the past, and I recall the big ones putting out some odors. I suppose in your 30 ft yurt, there's a lot more volume than my 20 ft yurt to dilute the fumes...
Click to expand...

No fan. You never smell any kind of exhaust nor have I ever had either CO2 detector go off. They burn really clean. The only time you ever smell anything is right before the tank dies.

I agree with Bob about the heaters. I have a salamander and would never, ever use that in a yurt. I don't even care for using it in my garage, but do sometimes.

I tried a ventless propane heater once, and I burned through an entire 20 pound bottle in one night and still froze our butts off in 30 degree weather. Didn't work well for me. I think a radiant heater would have been better.
 
I lived in an ancient 400 sq. ft. apt., decades ago. It was heated with a small wall mount furnace, with a single vent to the apt. There was no smell in the place. There was no forced air duct distribution system.

The apt. was two equal sized 200 sq.ft. areas. The furnace heated the 200 sq.ft. lr/kt well in the middle of the winter and it does get cold here. With no distribution system the warmed air had to migrate into the bd/ba area through the bd door. Good thing I have always like sleeping in a cool bedroom. Back then I regularly warmed up in the bar before heading home so it was no biggie to see my breath inside my crib. lol
 
Gentlemen,

Forgive me if this was discussed before, but does anyone have pictures of a chimney assembly/installation on a Mongolian ger or other yurt that doesn't have designed chimney outlet?
I am ready to install a wood burning stove soon (too wet and chilly these days), but I need to figure out how to accommodate it.

Thank you

PS, if you are interested, here is a link to pictures of my Kazakh yurt.
https://www.facebook.com/truekochevnik/photos/?tab=album&album_id=797494550365097
 
Here is a picture from a visit in Mongolia.

I'm not sure it is what you have in mind, but it was a common design there, and that was the common tono arrangement. I don't know how your top is arranged, but there is one idea.

I know there must be an easy way to show it, but I am not familiar with it, and don't have the time to deal with it at the moment. Accept my apologies for the inconvenience.

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