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addicted56 03-03-2014 09:52 PM

How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
I know this was vaguely mentioned in another thread on insulation but I didn't want to clutter the thread.

My very specific question is how much room is there between the lattice structure and the outer layer of the yurt if I were to fill it with insulation in ADDITION to the factory Astrofoil. We have been looking at Ultratouch sound insulation at the R13 variety for only our sleeping portion and was hoping we would be able to fit the 3.5 inches of material on the inside of the factory white liner yet before the astrofoil and outer layer. Still yet sure how we are going to afford it and maybe the regular denim insulation is enough as it is much cheaper. We are not worried about the main living area (main 30' yurt) but my wife worries about the barking dogs, thunder storms, my diesel truck parked near by when I leave at 0500 and creaking trees waking the newborn and 3 year old. Not something we want to have to deal with often as they are hard enough to get down as it is.

I'm open to other ideas as well but this seemed to kill two birds with one stone. Luckily we will be in the shade of the trees but it gets very warm and humid in GA and the small mini-split we are installing should be enough to keep us cool but we don't want to unnecessarily wast energy if we can insulate it well.

Note: We will have floor insulation as well.

Jafo 03-04-2014 08:13 AM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
3.5 inches.. That's asking a lot. If we are talking about these yurts you mentioned you are buying, then I would think it would not be possible. From the pictures, it doesn't look like they have the uprights (studs) in their packaged (or have installed them). Not a biggie really, you can just use standard 2X4 studs and do it yourself if you wanted to. These uprights are usually for snow load, which may not be an issue for you, but another thing they are good for is for insulating the walls. You can install insulation like you do in traditional structures, securing it to the studs.

This all being said, noise can be an issue, no doubt. I can carry on a conversation with someone through the walls in my yurt and I only have the reflectix insulation. Insulation would surely mitigate this, but keep in mind that there are a few challenges, namely in combating moisture. The only ventilation in a normal yurt is through the dome. If you start putting in heavy insulation, you are going to trap in moisture and have to vent it.

addicted56 03-04-2014 08:25 AM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
So you are saying that the canvas sides do not flex enough to put this inbetween the lattice and the the outer canvas. I wasn't sure about that.

The yurts we are purchasing do have the 2x4 supports for the wind/snow package so that is an option. I personally like the look of the lattice but I know the wife doesn't as much so using it inbetween could be an option. We would just need another fabric liner of some sort to cover it once installed.

Jafo 03-04-2014 08:38 AM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by addicted56 (Post 3103)
So you are saying that the canas sides do not flex enough to put this inbetween the lattice and the the outer canvas. I wasn't sure about that.

I have a Pacific Yurt, they are somewhat similar in this aspect I think. I just can't see how you can fit that much material between the two, but I could be wrong. You might want to ping the Colorado Yurts contact here and see if they could answer definitively. They may even have a different solution we haven't considered.

I see by your profile, you are in Georgia? I wouldn't think you need the studs for snow load (except if you are in a high elevation?). I always prefer the look without them, and it also saves you room (7 inches) without them.

Are you planning on framing interior rooms in the yurt you will be sleeping in, or just have it as one big room? If you decided to do that, you can always insulate the framed walls/ceiling themselves.

addicted56 03-04-2014 09:07 AM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
Luckily there are mutliple yurts so we will live in one small one and use the other as a living area. The snow is not a problem but the hurricanes are so the added strength will be welcome come the next 100+MPH winds. Not to mention I have been in some pretty serious micro bursts on a nice sunny day.

Cold is not so much a problem though we did get into the teens once here during one of those freak cold snaps but the constant 90+F and 90+% humidity will make the need to help keep it cool very important. Unlike those who say they just throw on a sweater and pants, you can only get so naked!!

addicted56 03-05-2014 11:16 PM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
We already had a detailed plan for a 30' yurt but have now had to change our way of thinking. After a couple hours tonight I think I have the wife back on track and we have some great ideas.

After reading your thoughts and looking at what others have done we came up with a way to insulate and hide the blue denim insulation. We will put it in between the 2x4 supports and then use 7/32" underlayment (like plywood) and connect that to each support. I have yet to figure out how to cover the seams. Maybe caulking or quarter round. All reviews says it takes primer and paint very well and it is moisture resistant which is great here in the humid land. Now I just need to figure out how to do the roof. I would hate to hide the rafters.

So I guess the same question as above. There may not be enough room in the walls but would there be 2" to 3.5" between the white cloth and before the astroifoil and roof to slip some insulation in there? It seems like it would just require a bit more tightening of the roof around the wall rim once you got it over and ready. This wouldn't require any extra material and or supporting structure.

Thoughts?

Jafo 03-06-2014 01:00 AM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
I like your idea for the walls except for the plywood. You may want to hold off on that. A LOT of people use fabric as a liner to hide the insulation. MUCH cheaper, easier, and changeable.

A couple of red flags on your roof idea:

Which ever side of the reflectix insulation that is in contact with the new insulation layer will lose the benefit of reflective insulation I would think. I would guess that means you would want the insulation on TOP of it.

Even so, now your roof may not over hang the edge enough or properly so you can tie it off to the walls. I think though, you might have more play here than you would on the walls.

With the 2X6 rafters, you can insulate between them without covering them. For one thing, you can use foam board insulation. I suggest you leave a gap between the foam board and the fabric though.

Bob Rowlands 03-06-2014 10:24 AM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
One thing about OSB sheating. Installation in a moist environment is cause for concern. It is a fine sheathing product if kept dry. Long term moisture contact destroys the structural integrity of the product, and it literally falls apart. If installed where it comes in repeated contact with moisture laden materials, even very humid weather, it must be given a good coat of paint.

Since there aren't flat surfaces on a yurt, flexible materials that can follow a yurts curves would be my first choice for yurt wrap.

I'm of the opinion Mongolians have the yurt all figured out. Trying to adapt what is in essence a superb nomadic shelter into our 'square' building practice, with codes, regs, materials etc. all built around square structures, isn't easy. It's really trial and error. I wish I could contribute a wrap suggestion here, but all I can think of is felt.

Good luck.

.

addicted56 03-06-2014 03:08 PM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
Luckily I have a pretty decent budget so while cloth would be easy and a bit cheaper I think this would look a lot nicer. The wife would like it to not look so "tentish" so I am doing the best I can with the funds we have set aside. I have time so why not.

7/32 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. Moisture-Resistant Plywood Underlayment-431178 at The Home Depot

We used the mini split heat pumps in Afghanistan and Iraq and they work great at conditioning the air and keeping it dry so I don't really have any worries.

I probably need to call the company and ask if I can get insulation between the roof. Hopefully I can and I'm sure someone has done it.

In regards to the radiant barrier it will do its job exactly the same no matter which side it is on I would think. Either way I will put it on the outside for here in the south.

Jake Levi 03-22-2014 07:03 AM

Re: How thick of insulation between Lattice
 
One solution that I have seen is using tyvek, both in the roof and wall exterior skin. That does much to control moisture. I agree strongly that re-engineering a proven Mongolian design could be counterproductive. OTOH keeping a spouse happy with growing family here in the US could be a challenge. I see a lot of great ideas/applications here that make it well worth the time to understanding and applying them. Until now the bulk of my understanding of yurt construction is from Paul Kings book, Living in the Round, and Changing World of the Mongolian Nomads. Plus seeing a few scattered around the world. Also include in the website Simplydifferently.org Yurts-Ger

And my own thoughts. For me I am single, so a smaller yurt works fine. A 24' is my thoughts right now. I'll go from there. I think my final thought to accepting or denying a particular feature/application will be - Would a Mongol do it this way if it was available/affordable? The winds there and cold are on a par with the mtns of ID. KISS comes seriously into play.

Great thoughts here, really enjoy the questions and inputs. Thanks.


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